Serendipity Forums

Hi.

I installed a new blog recently using the bulletproof default theme. Now articles having h1/2/3/4 headers are messed up with external formating, as the surroundings of articles are done with H2/3.. headers having a special formatting.

I think, this should be changed, else Hx tags in articles can't be used.

I did some hacking on the css files, making it possible again, but I think, you can do it better..

blog.brockha.us wrote:I installed a new blog recently using the bulletproof default theme. Now articles having h1/2/3/4 headers are messed up with external formating, as the surroundings of articles are done with H2/3.. headers having a special formatting.

I have to admit I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to

BP uses <h1> and <h2> for the blog's title and description, <h3> for date and sidebar titles and <h4> for entry titles. It also uses <h3> and <h4> for corresponding items, i.e. on static pages. Now, if you want to use further headings within an entry or static page, and also want to keep your markup standards compliant, you should probably use <h5> and <h6>. (And below that, you're out of heading levels, yes.)

This is the standard convention used by s9y ever since. BP is only reproducing the original default template's behaviour here. While I personally don't think this is a good thing, I think it was requested for backwards compatibility or something

(Personally, I think the entry title should be a <h1>, the sidebar titles should be <h2> and everything else shouldn't be a heading at all.)

So is this what you meant or do you refer to a CSS issue? If so, can we see it live?

YL

Hi!

Semantically, artices should not have h1 tags, because it belongs to the page itself, not the article. So it would be better, structurally speaking, to employ the use of the correct h3, 4, 5 (or 4,5,6) subheaders instead!

Regards,
Garvin

garvinhicking wrote:Semantically, artices should not have h1 tags, because it belongs to the page itself, not the article.

Oh, that is very debatable http://www.h1debate.com/

YL

Garvin: I do. I use H2 and H3 headers only. H1 is the header of the blog entry itself (IMHO).

But it can be done, that Hx inside of the template is formatted other than in the entry itself. So - if this is possible, why not allow the use auf H1/H2/H3.. inside the article, too? Normal users won't realize while writing an article, that there are headings outside of the article. Hx inside an article should be meant "relative". Smaller than the entries title (or what ever is structurally above) but the first size of the entries content.

Don't you think so?

@Yelloled: Perhaps we should discuss this in German, if you don't understand me. My written English is not understandable always, I admit..

blog.brockha.us wrote:Garvin: I do. I use H2 and H3 headers only. H1 is the header of the blog entry itself (IMHO).

No, it's not. At least not in BP (or most of the other templates).

blog.brockha.us wrote:But it can be done, that Hx inside of the template is formatted other than in the entry itself. So - if this is possible, why not allow the use auf H1/H2/H3.. inside the article, too?

Because that is definitely semantically incorrect. The semantic part of the web (i.e. search engines and screenreaders, mostly) does not care about CSS styling. While it is of course possible to have a <h1> for the blog header, a <h1> for the entry title, and an <h1> within the entry, it is not desirable.

While Garvin and I may not agree on the purpose of <h1>, we certainly agree that headings should be used in a proper structure. While it is debatable as well whether there should only be one <h1> per page (some folks think so), it would definitely not be a good idea to use <h1> for the entry title and use it as well within the entry body.

blog.brockha.us wrote:Smaller than the entries title (or what ever is structurally above) but the first size of the entries content.

Yes. If the entry title is a <h1>, the first heading used in the entry should be a <h2>. And users should be aware of that. (Actually, I don't think that many users even use heading in the entry, but that's a horse of a different color.)

YL

yellowled wrote:Yes. If the entry title is a <h1>, the first heading used in the entry should be a <h2>. And users should be aware of that.

Okay. I understand that problem and I agree with you, that using h1 in entries is somewhat "nasty".

But with bp / default it is not even possible to use h2 and h3, if you don't want to make the entry look bad. Hmm, okay, perhaps this is only my opinion, that (at least) h2 and h3 should be possible inside of articles, so I stay with my bp /default hack, leaving the real bp / default as it is.

blog.brockha.us wrote:But with bp / default it is not even possible to use h2 and h3, if you don't want to make the entry look bad. Hmm, okay, perhaps this is only my opinion, that (at least) h2 and h3 should be possible inside of articles

Well, another issue is the dategroup date. If used, it should definitely be a heading since a dategroup contains all entries published at a given date. But with that markup, you'd already be down to <h3> for the entry title, even if you didn't use a heading for the blog description (but a <p>, for instance).

The problem here is clearly that default (and along with it, BP) is meant for generic use, not as an individual template ...

YL

Ah.. btw.. ul / li doesn't show up in articles, too, when using bp / default.

blog.brockha.us wrote:Ah.. btw.. ul / li doesn't show up in articles, too, when using bp / default.

Yes, it does. Do you have a recent BP? Are you sure your markup is correct? Can we finally see it live?

YL

The BP was fetched from serendipity trunk. This is the newest I can get, I think.
I hope, the HTML is correct, I use a WYSIWYG editor, that produces lists correctly, if the article is displayed in other templates.

Live show: Hmm.. This is a completely password protected site. I could give you temporary access, as this site is in a somewhat temporary state at the moment anyhow.

Later: Huh? It is the lightbox plugin, that changes the CSS in that way, that UL/LI are not displayed.. When I disable it, everything looks fine again. Strange! Have too look into that.

Sorry for false alarming.

blog.brockha.us wrote:Sorry for false alarming.

No worries. If you still want/need advice with the lightbox stuff, just drop me an email or catch me via ICQ or something.

YL