Brainstorming: What do we "need" template-wise?

[d_cee]

Hi YL and Don!!

the 75% font-size was to facilitate em sizing for generally styling the template. As I remember I asked for it in the body but you'd set it to 101% for opera. It's not that important but 16pt text, which the template will show with most users default settings, is big!

However, having just tried your suggestion Don, it doesn't work on my machine. The only way I've found to resolve the right sidebar margin issue is by floating it right instead of left in the base.css.

catch you later

Dave

[Don Chambers]

However, having just tried your suggestion Don, it doesn't work on my machine. The only way I've found to resolve the right sidebar margin issue is by floating it right instead of left in the base.css.

Dave - I suggested float: right; Also, clear: right to help with the "jumpiness" thing. Does not completely eliminate the problem, but it allows the window to be reduced well beyond where most users would ever take it. What about my other suggestions didn't work?

However, here is the downside in IE. Since IE (not sure about other browsers) cannot have 100% width, the current css has sidebars at 20% and content at 59%. So, by floating right, the margin simply shifts to the left side of the rightsidebar. If you set background colors for the sidebars and content, you can see it.

It can be disguised with some game playing, for instance, if a background color was desired for content, you simply set the same background for body or wrapper.

Anyway, sure miss the stability of tables on this column nonsense, but I know that is a huge step backwards!

[d_cee]

Hi Don

I noticed that the banner was also shrinking at a point, and had the same right margin problem that Dave pointed out. I think I found the cause - setting font-size: 75% in #wrapper.

I read this to mean if you did the above it would solve the right sidebar margin problem - which it didn't.

Have I misunderstood

cheers
Dave[/quote]

[Don Chambers]

Try this for serendipityRightSideBar: float: right; clear: right;

Looks to be a few other issues as well, let me see what I can come up with.

EDIT: Besides what I mentioned above, I noticed that the banner was also shrinking at a point, and had the same right margin problem that Dave pointed out. I think I found the cause - setting font-size: 75% in #wrapper. Take it out there, and set it for the content and sidebars instead.

Sorry for the confusion. I think that "margin" is really just a result of the total width being 99%, not 100%. Floating right gets the rightsidebar to align with the wrapper, but the "gap" still exists - just now it is on the left side. The font-size thing substantially reduced the header issue I was mentioning, but it still appears if you really squeeze the window. Strange.

Here is another strange thing, and again, this entire message is with respect to IE6... leave the font size alone, float the rightsidebar right (which eliminates the gap), then set the banner to width: 100%.... our little gap returns!!! However, I think removing the font-size from #wrapper resolves this as well, I just find it strange, but admittedly, did not dig too deeply. I might try to play with this again later this evening.

[yellowled]

Okay, first of all: I've added

Code: Select all

#sitenav, #serendipityLeftSideBar, #serendipityRightSideBar,
#content, #footer { font-size: 75%; }

to base.css - that way, we still have a decent font-size but don't have it for #wrapper.

Sorry for the confusion. I think that "margin" is really just a result of the total width being 99%, not 100%.

It is 100% in base.css. I'll try later if this also works in IE7, either "stand-alone" or combined with a float: right. Can someone please port IE for Linux? Kidding

I'll also work out decent fixed widths for IE <= 6. I'd say we go with 1024px width. I'd sure love to add a message saying "Hey, you're using a crappy browser, please use Firefox", but I guess we can't do that ...

Updated zip might be available tonight or tomorrow morning - depends on how I hold myself up tonight

YL

[Don Chambers]

I read this to mean if you did the above it would solve the right sidebar margin problem - which it didn't.

Have I misunderstood

cheers
Dave

I think we are saying the same thing - float right gets the right side bar to align with the wrapper. The other thing I mentioned was specific only to the banner/header.

[yellowled]

Sorry for the confusion. I think that "margin" is really just a result of the total width being 99%, not 100%.

It is 100% in base.css. I'll try later if this also works in IE7, either "stand-alone" or combined with a float: right.

I have to say, I really have a hard time believing Don he's new to templates and CSS Not only does float: right for the right sidebar work, it even saves us the fixed widths for IE <= 6 and the extra stylesheets we have used so far!

I have tested this on FF 1.5/Win, FF 2/Win+Linux, Opera 9/Win+Linux and IE 5.01, 5.5, 6 and 7/Win - as far as I can see, it works in all of them ... well, almost all of them.

Of course, this still has some small flaws: It doesn't work at all in IE 5.5 (neglectible in my humble opinion) and the new layout I introduced with both sidebars on the left doesn't work anymore. I guess the latter can be fixed with an extra id, I'll try and figure that out later. IE 5.5 could probably be solved with an extra stylesheet just for that. I'll try that later also.

However, this might require some "dirty" hacks since conditional comments (which are the preferred technique for IE fixes) don't distinguish between minor versions, so we can't have an ie55.css - it would also affect IE 5.01. I vote for simply ignoring IE 5.5.

Zipfile/sandbox have been updated to this version, take your time to check this out over the weekend. I probably won't be around 'til Monday morning.

YL

[Don Chambers]

I have to say, I really have a hard time believing Don he's new to templates and CSS Not only does float: right for the right sidebar work, it even saves us the fixed widths for IE <= 6 and the extra stylesheets we have used so far!

Dave was the first one to identify that fix!!! My addition was the clear: right, which, at least on my machine, greatly reduced the "jumpiness" you were talking about yesterday.

Of course, this still has some small flaws: It doesn't work at all in IE 5.5 (neglectible in my humble opinion) and the new layout I introduced with both sidebars on the left doesn't work anymore. I guess the latter can be fixed with an extra id, I'll try and figure that out later. IE 5.5 could probably be solved with an extra stylesheet just for that. I'll try that later also.

I would think 2 on the side would still work as long as only the furthest one out was cleared....

I vote for simply ignoring IE 5.5.

I vote that we disable operation for all versions of IE, and put a $1 download link on the page for FF!!!!

[yellowled]

Dave was the first one to identify that fix!!! My addition was the clear: right, which, at least on my machine, greatly reduced the "jumpiness" you were talking about yesterday.

Oops, my mistake. So you're just a small genius and Dave is the true master

the new layout I introduced with both sidebars on the left doesn't work anymore.

I would think 2 on the side would still work as long as only the furthest one out was cleared....

It does work for B-S-S, i.e. both sidebars on the right, but not for S-S-B, i.e. both sidebars on the left. I fixed that already with some minor changes to index.tpl and base.css, but I have to test those in IE.

I vote for simply ignoring IE 5.5.

I vote that we disable operation for all versions of IE, and put a $1 download link on the page for FF!!!!

I suppose that would result in 0$ and much less visitors

However, I seem to have misread the instructions on conditional comments - seems like they do support minor version number, so it might be possible to have an ie55.css. I have to check that under win also.

I'm off to band rehearsal later this afternoon, so all this will probably have to wait until Monday morning.

YL

[yellowled]

so all this will probably have to wait until Monday morning.

... and here it is. Sandbox and zipfile have been updated (URLs as usual).

I have run extensive tests on this under Win, actually this has been tested in *takeadeepbreath* Firefox 1.5, Firefox 2.0, Opera 9, IE 5.01, IE 5.55, IE 6 and IE 7, all of them in 1024x768 and smaller, all layout types we currently have ... and all of them now work!

My TODO.bulletproof isn't up to date, the only issue that remains to be solved is that margin thing in Safari. Dave - please check this again with the new zipfile.

YL

[d_cee]

Hi YL

the only issue that remains to be solved is that margin thing in Safari. Dave - please check this again with the new zipfile.

I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that this is now resolved

cheers

Dave

[Don Chambers]

I have not touched anything this entire weekend. Sick. Slowly recovering. Anyway, I took a quick look YL - first of all, what exactly did you change? Second - do my eyes deceive me, or do you actually have the width at 100% without problems now - and if so, how did you finally resolve that?

[yellowled]

I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that this is now resolved

Yay! *rolling a vat of beer into the forum* Let's party!

Soooo ... hm. Crap, there's nothing left to do. What do we do with our spare time now? Kidding.

I have actually uploaded yet another update which fixes something Garvin mentioned a loooong time ago - a possible performance hit because of the dynamic navbar links. We have cleared that via email, Garvin has already committed a patch to the s9y v1.2 svn repository, and this works in 1.1.x as well.

I guess this could be the final BP zipfile

This means BP requires s9y v1.1 to work at all because of the theme options used. Personally, I don't think we should make this backwards compatible to work with anything < 1.1. Despite the fact that it would mean a shipload of work, it would also sort of mock the idea behind BP. However, it does not require v1.2 in order to work, it is only needed to be "full-featured" (which also means the blog in question has to have its plugins up to date), and even that concerns only the feed icons as far as I can see.

I guess the license questions is pretty much clear: GPL. Any template on spartacus is licensed under that, I'd be fine with it, too.

Documentation is another thing - I'm not sure what kind of documentation this really needs. It's meant to be a framework, so it's pretty likely people using this to do templates will be template authors with at least some experience. Maybe it's a good idea to simply include a howto which explains certain standard things like i.e. "How Do I change the feed icon?". Also, some examples would be good, so maybe we should all do a template based on bulletproof before releasing it.

I'll probably simply redo my y15 based on the BP code. However, this might take some time - my girlfriend's moving next week, so I have to paint walls and haul boxes over the next two weeks or so I'll also drop Carl an email so he knows we're done.

I don't consider this thread closed, but I'd like to say it's been a pleasure working on this thing with you guys, which includes anyone who ever raised his voice in this thread. Let's keep our fingers crossed this lives up to its name

YL

[garvinhicking]

Hi!

I guess the license questions is pretty much clear: GPL. Any template on spartacus is licensed under that, I'd be fine with it, too.

If BP should at any point be added to our main release/repository, then GPL would deny that possibility. Core s9y templates would need to be BSD licensed.

Just wanted to drop that in, but the call is yours of course.

Best regards,
Garvin

[yellowled]

I have not touched anything this entire weekend. Sick. Slowly recovering.

Too bad. Get well soon!

Anyway, I took a quick look YL - first of all, what exactly did you change?

Erm, well ... that's kind of hard to trace back

Second - do my eyes deceive me, or do you actually have the width at 100% without problems now - and if so, how did you finally resolve that?

You're right. I think it works now because of Dave's float: right; and your clear: right; for the right sidebar. That one made it work in any IE and Safari, obviously. The only thing I had to add was ie.css, which adds the same for .threemain and .twomain, i.e. the entries column. That made the layouts which have the entries column on the right work in IE.

Also, I changed $vars to $template_loaded_config in config.inc.php to resolve the performance hit issue, but I was basically following Garvin's instructions on that one, so don't ask me how this works - I only know it works

YL