[rfc] a website for serendipity

[winkiller]

Hi there,
I've seen various posts and discussions about the website http://www.s9y.org in the last time (especially, casual topics have been brought up at least since I first came here ) and I think we should do something about it.

When I couldn't sleep last night I jotted down all the thoughts and ideas I've gathered over time and now I'll try to start a process of (perhaps) coming to a conclusion and (hopefully) gathering more ideas, as I think the page can be improved without too much work.

1. what is wrong (as I heard)
- website is too complex
- no ease of use
- casual users feel irritated
- not fancy enough
- not useable enough
- stylesheet doesn't validate
- it's a wiki, not a "real" webpage
- navigation is way too complex

2. what can be done (as I think)
- reorganize the whole page: www.s9y.org will point to the blog, where all news will be announced and a short introductry text is displayed on the top of the page, the current site will be moved to dev.s9y.org or something (to allow editing)

=> 19 navigation links in 8 categories instead of 35 in 4 categories (in 2 seperate pages)

- the blog is 900 px wide, so 800x600 users have to scroll anyway, make it 90 px wider and insert a left column for navigation

- the navigation will get a major redesign and the important content has to be somehow extracted from coWiki to be displayed in an accessible and easy-readable way (perhaps on staticpages or a plugin to be done)


- we also lack a theme selector for previews like Wordpress has it for examples. would it be a good idea to install the plugin to let visitors see all Themes we have live on the page?

3. difficulties and things to think about (with these changes)
- exporting the stuff from coWiki, as I have no idea how to it yet
- the "world-writable" pages like "who is using it" shall still be editable
- S9Y will be used as a kind of CMS, is that a good idea on the project page
- keep the design of blog.s9y.org or manage to get a designer (2 or 3 column-layout can be done easily before styling it)
- I'm no designer at all and perhaps this is an absolutely wrong approach...

Please note that this is a collection of bits of information that I overheard and that bug me personally in no particular order, feel free to comment, flame me or praise me for every single line.

Well, I encourage everyone who has ever had any problem with s9y.org regarding useability or anything to write something here (and also all the people who have had exactly no problems with the page). All developers are especially begged to think about it for a while and then I can only wait for answers and offer to do as much of this as possible, because I personally haven't liked the coWiki approach from the beginning.

[garvinhicking]

I am absolutely against moving Wiki Content into the Blog.

We need people to add to our content, without them being blog editors. And with us being able to re-edit changes anytime, and see changes anytime. This cannot be done with a blog and/or staticpages, it makes no sense. Documentation and stuff needs to be world-writable, so that people can contribute.

Having said that, I'm open to restructuring the things as you mentioned: Make blog.s9y.org the startpage, give it some more navigation that points to dev.s9y.org (the wiki).

So I'm open to design suggestions/mockups, that we can implement. Also remember that coWiki is stylable, somone just needs to do that. I'm too busy with forum support and coding, I can't offer to make a design - I can only help to implement suggestions.

Regards,
Garvin

[winkiller]

I suppose you misunderstood me, I'll try to rephrase:

I intended to have the actual data and information in the coWiki - just introducing a different "view" to display it in the framework of the blog - not moving the content. (there would then be no sense in keeping the wiki at dev.s9y.org) perhaps staticpages was the wrong expression, I meant more like a defined /foo/bar/ url, where a kind of page like "staticpage" runs, where you have a plugin that gets it content from coWiki/SQL just to display it.

Another faster approach may be to just make the blog the frontpage and add all the important links to a navigation bar that bring you to the wiki, so just the frontpage is tidied and the important sections are highlighted, as you mentioned.

For a design, IMHO the blog-design with a few minor tweaks will be fine.

[garvinhicking]

Ah, okay. I thought by exporting you meant a one-time export.

Yes, I don't know how/if coWiki supports content embedding in foreign apps. They framework is good, so I bet it would be possible, but requires work.

Best regards,
Garvin

[winkiller]

Does this look appealing in any way?
Should be doable in coWiki-Templates and CSS

[garvinhicking]

I like the basic idea, but the implementation looks really a bit rough and should be enhanced, especially for the menu and the a bit too 2D-looking curves?

Best regards,
Garvin

[winkiller]

I don't exactly get what should be different from a 2d curve. 3d curve? *confused*

Of course it was a first attempt in a process to perhaps find something useful, what exactly do you think rougher than in the current design? Or do you have any specific ideas?

Or anyone else, as I feel slightly ignored on this topic, although people complain...

[falk]

I find it looks good.

[robert]

A late comment

As I first found www.s9y.org I was a little bit confused that a Blog Engine have a Wiki as Homepage and I thought "Oh, not a good software - not good enough for a start page..." - Gracefully I found some Sites s9y driven and I saw how good s9y is....

Don´t give a up wiki and board, but starting with the blog himself is a good way of promotion.

[judebert]

Sounds like we should consider embedding the wiki in the blog. We could theme the wiki very minimally, then it would be presented in the same theme as the overall blog.

One of the things we've talked about with respect to the wiki design is that it should match the new Serendipity design. Theme contest submissions are due in only two days, and then we'll have a week of decision-making. If we style the wiki separately, we'll have to do with a very short turnaround, or else we're stuck with the same old problems as we expect increased traffic over the release of 1.0.

If we embed the wiki, we automatically get the theme changes.

As to the proposed theme itself: I like the idea. I think that curve should align with the edge of the menu, though. I'd also move the "Community" section above "Who", and maybe even embed those who-links in the community. After all, aren't the authors, developers, and users the definition of the community?