s9y popularity compared to other weblog products

[zoran]

Hi all,

I was wondering how popular Serendipity is compared to other weblog products. Google Directory gives it a 10th place, according to pagerank. I used del.icio.us to see what real users think

http://www.kovacevic.nl/blog/archives/2 ... io.us.html

Conclusion: shared 5th place with b2evolution!

WordPress is by far #1. What do you suppose s9y needs to get higher in the popularity list?

Best regards, Zoran

[garvinhicking]

Hi Zoran!

What do you suppose s9y needs to get higher in the popularity list?

Good press, and people considering that WordPress is not the only available solution.

Basically we have the same problem as IBM's OS/2. It was superior to Windows, but no one used it, because Microsoft had better press and more media coverage.

Thus, more people spreading the word and then more people helping develop plugins and templates are the top one thing that we're lacking of.

IMHO technically, we're all up to par, if not superior. But of course I must say that as a developer

Best regards,
Garvin

[snowcrash]

Hello

I've been thinking about s9y's popularity recently, esp. as I'm new to it.

I discovered it on http://www.opensourcecms.com where it has a quite good ranking in comparison to other blogs

Though the funny thing is, when I first had a quick look at s9y a few months ago, I thought it was a little too geeky, and aimed for those with coding knowledge (which I haven't got).
Maybe also, the site address of www.s9y.org also gives this impression, as to most people it will be meaningless
The name, Serendipity too - which I actually like - again doesn't connote an easily understandable meaning I suspect.
The front page also has a lot of info, and can appear to be over-whelming. Furthermore, the long list of plugins can be daunting

I initially rejected s9y when I first came across it for these reasons.

Perhaps, all these factors may prevent s9y from acquiring a major sector of the blog/cms potential userbase? which it deserves!

I certainly don't mean this as a criticism of the developers & the software, as they have certainly produced a top-notch product and offer awesome support But that isn't always easy to find out for someone visiting the site

But the questioning of branding is really significant these days. Take for example, Wordpress, it's cleanish, clutter-free look has made it attractive to many folks. (And of course Apple's IPod is the best example of branding, even if technically, other mp3 players offer better features and sound)

Perhaps s9y also needs to work on branding and easier website navigation, organistion etc (as well as promotion as Garvin mentions). While I can't write plugins/coding (yet), I'm happy to contribute ideas to help brand s9y

just some thoughts

cheers

[garvinhicking]

Snowcrash,

I can only agree to what you said. Our wiki page is not especially beautiful, and it could need a restructure of the navigation.

I lack the time to restructurize the navigation, so if anyone give me a couple of suggestions that are accepted here on the forums, I can easily implement them.

I am not skilled at designing, and have never worked with coWiki Templates - so I need help there as well.

Technically we should remain with cowiki, as its navigation is easier to edit than that of mediaWiki. IMHO. And of course we have all that content that I don't want to loose

So, any precise, concrete ideas that I can just "put online" would be heartly welcome. Any ideas for how to restructure the navigation or design implementations for a cowiki template are welcome as well

Best regards,
Garvin

[snowcrash]

Hello Garvin

If it helps I'll give it some thought in terms of navigation/design etc. Though I'm no expert, but do spend a fair bit of time surfing and web design (from a users's perspective) is an interest of mine.

A quick thought: while I understand the wiki serves it's purpose for organising the valuabe site info, IMHO, it gives the impression of a developer's site, rather than for a user.

Wiki's tend to be orientated towards information rather than design, so perhaps there's an issue here?

I'm not trying to dismiss the idea of a wiki, but thinking about how appropriate it is for advertising/branding s9y.

When you look at wordpress or drupal, it's front page mimics the structure of the software - actually it is the software itself - whereas, for s9y, this is not the case.

Of course, WP or drupal shouldn't be simply mimicked for the sake of it, but it is worth thinking about whether a wiki as the frontpage for s9y adequately brands it?
Or else as you point out, a new kind of template needs to be developed

regards
snowcrash

[garvinhicking]

Snowcrash,

we do use Serendipity ourselves, the blog software on blog.s9y.org is linked quite prominently on the startpage and within the navigation? But I agree that maybe it can be organized differently.

Someone even suggested to make the s9y blog the startpage, and from there you must go to the wiki. That might be an idea worth to follow?

I do think that the wiki has possibilities for easy editing, adding and contributing, but because of its ugly template is currently not fit for presentation -- that should be changed

Best,
Regards,
Garvin

[snowcrash]

we do use Serendipity ourselves, the blog software on blog.s9y.org is linked quite prominently on the startpage and within the navigation? But I agree that maybe it can be organized differently.

Someone even suggested to make the s9y blog the startpage, and from there you must go to the wiki. That might be an idea worth to follow?
...

Yes, I totally agree that making s9y blog the start page would be the best and most attractive advert for it. Putting the wiki on frontpage makes the s9y software appear a bit secondary, as if it is still in beta development or something.

If making s9y blog the front page, I reckon it should have a static content, saying what it is, rather than current news. And a few key menus could be listed for navigation to other sections and the wiki. It would make a big difference to the initial presentation of s9y.

Also, the main descriptive title of 'Serendipity - a PHP Weblog/Blog software' could be simplified to something like:
Serendipity - Ultimate Weblog Software

It's interesting you focus on indicating php on the logo too - maybe this is unnecessary as the average user will want a blog to work, rather than be concerned with what it is coded with. Having 'php' in both the title description and logo I feel gives the impression of a coder's blog, rather than aimed at the average user. But that's just IME

cheers

[Hoshi]

I've been using s9y for eight month and then switched to Wordpress for another four month (until now). But I am getting sick of it since designing a template is not as easy at it is for s9y. I always build my custom template for s9y but now I am using K2 like almost all other WP Bloggers. Besides, the wp community isn't that great at all and the s9y people seem less sophisticated and stuff (sorry I am ranting on wp but it's the truth).

Anyways, put the s9y blog on the frontpage. I am sure it will bring you the required popularity and a fair amount of new users.

[Col. Kurtz]

my 2 cents:

I agree on almost everything that was said here. But I dont think the s9y blog should be the startpage. Neither should the Wiki.

Create some pages with static content. An introduction, a list of features, a download site, a how to install site, a beginners guide.

For news link to the blog itself.
For support link to the forum.
For further info link to the wiki.

Just make it look nice and with a simple structure and people will like it.

Once they´ve tried it, they will be easily won over to the good side of the force.

[Guest]

What about the logo? Always important for brand identity.

As far as I know, there are the coffee cup:

...
Any thoughts on a logo design contest, either here (volunteer) or a "nominal prize" contest like at http://www.designcontest.net/?

Doh, the current logo is a coffee cup!
I thought it was some bizzare abstract

Logo competition would be cool

[garvinhicking]

Maybe, as a core developer and maintainer of Serendipity, I'd like to drop in that I really like our logo. *gg* (No, I haven'T done it -- but I still like it.

Regards,
Garvin

[zoran]

I agree on almost everything that was said here. But I dont think the s9y blog should be the startpage. Neither should the Wiki.

Create some pages with static content. An introduction, a list of features, a download site, a how to install site, a beginners guide.

For news link to the blog itself.
For support link to the forum.
For further info link to the wiki.

Just make it look nice and with a simple structure and people will like it.

I agree with Kurtz on this. Wiki's are for maintaining information, forums for discussions & support and blogs, well ...

Lets do a 'static' homepage focused at users pointing to the right application where useful. E.g. sitemap:

• 1 home
  1.1 features
  1.2 news (s9y)
  1.3 support
  1.3.1 FAQ
  1.3.2 documentation (cowiki)
  1.3.2.1 users
  1.3.2.2 developers
  1.3.3 forum (phpbb)
  1.4 demo (s9y, reset every night)

Perhaps it can all be accomplished with cowiki, but I doubt it.

Zz.

[zoran]

Maybe, as a core developer and maintainer of Serendipity, I'd like to drop in that I really like our logo.

But of course

What I think is failing at this point is a consistent style across everything Serendipity. Think of it as a styleguide, or more specific templates to use in cowiki, s9y, phpbb.

Branding it all as Serendipity, and taking the user as a starting point would make the project look professional, trustworthy, easy-to-use.

One entry in the logo-contest could of course start off using the current logo, and expanding it into a style. If somebody picks that up. And you could vote for that

A logo-contest - if marketed to a broad public - would need to return more than a couple of entries to choose from.

I was working on a plan towards world domination with the 1.0 release, but somehow (...) I overwrote the file. When I find time between deadlines, I'll recap and post it over here.

Best, Zoran.

[zoran]

Here's a first go at a restyling plan:

Serendipity restyling
In order for s9y to measure up with the competition, we need a new design that pointed at the end-user. It would be very nice to do the 1.0 release together with a brand new shiny professional style!

Serendipity is:
- easy to use
- easy to install
- easy to extend with lots of plugins
- easy to theme with lots of skins (not really lots, but hey!)
- supported by a great community

In order to do the restyling, we need some great and open graphic designs to choose from. Lets do a logo-contest!

Define rules for logo-contest
- contestents start a forum thread for each entry, so it can be discussed
- define deliverables:
- - brilliant button (80x15)
- - powered by button
- - (need more)
- define an end date before which entries have to be entered (4 weeks?)
- define a period for discussion and setup voting (1 week?)
- define an end date before which all votes have to be entered (1 week?)
- define licenses that are accepted (e.g. creativecommons)
- (need more?)

--> Rules are setup, we can now announce it, in order to get the contestants!

Announce logo-contest
When the rules are set up, we have to announce our logo-contest to the public:
- set up an announcement (blog.s9y.org?)
- everybody with a s9y heart blogs the announcement page
- everybody with a s9y heart bookmarks the announcement page in del.icio.us (perhaps we'll make http://del.icio.us/popular/)
- register the announcement in http://digg.com
- everybody with a s9y heart diggs the announcement
- try to get announcement posted at sites with high numbers of possible contestants (i.e. webdesigners hangouts):
- - http://openwebdesign.org/
- - http://www.oswd.org/
I got these from a former colleague, more design centric:
- - http://Surfstation.lu
- - http://Designiskinky.net
- - http://K10k.org
- - http://Australianinfront.com.au
- - http://got.tweakers.net
- - (need more)
- try to get announcement posted at OSS blog/CMS sites:
- - http://www.opensourcecms.com/
- - http://www.oscom.org/
- - (need more)
- (need more)

--> Announces made, lets wait and see who enters the competition. Choose the winning entry according to contest rules.

Implement new style
After competition finishes according to the mentioned rules, the implementation of the design starts.
- define styleguide
- - logo's
- - colour scheme's
- - fonts
- - supporting images, if any
- - (need more)
- XHTML/CSS templates for
- - s9y (standard style)
- - cowiki
- - phpbb
- Refactor sitemap
- - (need more)
- implement new templates in applications
- (need more?)

--> Restyling finished. All Serendipity software is now properly branded, and a standard s9y install has a shiny new template.

Release Serendipity 1.0
Now that we have a shiny new website and the likes, it is safe to announce Serendipity 1.0 to the users. Again, make use of the blogosphere and digg & del.icio.us & etc. Perhaps a /. posting?

Since WP is our biggest competition, we might focus on why s9y is better than s9y on our new homepage? Or how easy it is to switch without losing any content? (need more )


What do you think? Lets refactor this into the Plan Towards World Domination For Serendipity!

Best, Zoran

[zoran]

It's interesting you focus on indicating php on the logo too - maybe this is unnecessary as the average user will want a blog to work, rather than be concerned with what it is coded with. Having 'php' in both the title description and logo I feel gives the impression of a coder's blog, rather than aimed at the average user. But that's just IME

I think that coders know that s9y is a technically great platform. We need the average user mass to get to know it and to start using it instead of the other software. I would definately say: drop PHP! (at least in the tagline and logo )

Perhaps we can check out the other blog software around, see what they are doing. I've compiled a competition list in del.icio.us: http://del.icio.us/zorankovacevic/bloggies.